Fire and Water

February 13th, 2012

Two burning issues. Firstly the sewerage treatment plants have received some criticism in the local media recently. What may not be known is that sewerage systems throughout this wide brown land of ours regularly operate on what is called bypass. If the incoming flows through the sewerage system cannot be processed then there is no alternative but for the incoming product to be flushed straight through the system unprocessed. This happens when we receive above average rainfall usually and the sewerage network is compromised by rainwater discharge entering the system. The can occur through ageing infrastructure and by illegal connections made to the sewerage network by residential or other property owners. Only last week I was walking in the Maryborough CBD, jumped over a drain grate and saw what looked like oil in the bottom of the pit. Maybe from the road surface maybe not! Illegally using stormwater drains to dispose of other waste is not on and using sewerage systems to direct stormwater and other waste is also illegal! It is not WBWC’s new CEO, Mr Peter Scott,  who is to blame for any of these problems including the recent breakdown of equipment at Maryborough. I am sure that Mr Peter Scott is doing his utmost to fix all these problems that he has inherited. It will take time and it costs money but if we want to have a top class sewerage treatment capability please do the right thing yourself and also report any illegal connections and/or activities that you are aware of. This region has inherited much ageing infrastructure above and below ground. It takes time and funding (money) to fix the problems from the past but slowly and surely fix them we will.

Fire.. Without any consultation of my knowledge to Council, the State Government decided to build a new Urban Fires Station at Craignish. I watched the station being built with interest but without any knowledge of what the impact on my community this station would bring! This station will not be manned! It will rely on on call staff to use the fire truck stationed there. So on first glance one would think we are receiving an improved service wouldn’t one. But at what cost? Not only will it still take heaps of time for an urban fire truck to attend if our house is burning down it means that our rural fire brigades will miss out on their component of the rural fire levy they usually receive.

In one swift move an entire section of countryside including Dundowran, Craignish, Toogoom etc is now classed as urban. This means our fire levy fees will rise an enormous amount. But what does it mean to the rural fire brigades which still are needed to fight ‘rural’ type fires? It means that they won’t have access to rural fire levy income usually collected from the househlds in this area. You see they receive no direct funding from the State Government and depend on the Fire Levy collected by your Council. Now there will be less rural fire levy collected come rates time.

What does this mean for Council? Other than raising the Fire Levy fee for everyone else still classified as rural, and so spreading the burden to every single ratepayer, I do not know. Should these rural brigades simply close down? I don’t think we want to lose them do we? These brigades are the backbone of our rural areas and often help urban brigades and travel far and wide in times of disaster. I believe Council has been left in a no win situation. I cannot see any easy solution so please have your say about it. Talk to your State Member and ring and write to let us all know what you think is the best way forward. After all I am sure the State Government won’t dismantle the station now. We are stuck with this situation like it or not! But maybe with enough community pressure the State Government will consider more adequately funding our rural fire brigades. Residents have until 23 March to provide feedback on these changes by emailing servicedelivery&levymanagemen[email protected]or by writing to the Commissioners at GPO Box 1425, Brisbane Q  4001. The local rural fire brigade office is Maryborough..

Maryborough 98 Lennox Street MARYBOROUGH QLD 4650 4190 4839

25 Responses to “Fire and Water”

  1. John A Neveon 13 Feb 2012 at 10:58 am

    Sue,

    Yes, the rural brigades should close down. The reason being they will not be able to fully operate under this new
    proposal for funding.

    The rural brigades have done a great job over the years,
    but if it is now an urban area, let the state government take over, after all it is their role.

    I’d suggest the state government should man the new
    station full time.

  2. Colin Burton 13 Feb 2012 at 11:05 am

    This is worthy of ‘Yes Minister’ . Build a Fire Station, put a fire truck in it, lock the doors and forget it. Until there is a local fire. Then try to find a fireman or two to send out there to try to get the truck started. If the whole place has not been vandalised in the meanwhile by bored youths.

    The sensible thing would be to donate the building, the fire truck, and some money to the local Rural Fire Brigade who could be on the scene quicker and would probably be delighted to keep a brand new appliance in a good state of readiness. Obviously a cynical vote attracting manoeuvre in a near election atmosphere of panic. A ‘Clayton’s’ Fire station !

  3. Matt Murphyon 15 Mar 2012 at 10:43 am

    Councillor Brooks.

    Better late than never, but I can wrap this whole thing up in one sentence.

    DSC and Premier Bligh had this planned for over many years and the effected fire stations have been lied to for as much time.

    First some backstory…

    As you may recall, Councillor, I was the Deputy Group Officer of the Hervey Bay Rural Fire Brigades Group. I was also the 1st Officer of the Toogoom Rural Fire Brigade.

    During my time as 1st Officer I helped the brigade grow from five active and three support members to 16 active, 6 support members, and 2 junior members. (One of which is now an Auxiliary Fire-fighter at Forrest Hill near Gatton)

    We were funded by the rural fire levy and it did the job well. We had a tidy and functional station in Shellcot Street, even helped maintain the adjacent council owned park. We held community awareness sessions, and often did drives around the community talking to residents, giving advice or just shooting the breeze, monitoring fuel levels in paddocks & checking hydrants (None of which that we found to be faulty and reported to WBW were repaired to my knowledge, but that’s another story)

    We even had our famous Christmas Run with Santa and Blazer Koala giving sweets to all the local and holidaying kids. The trucks escorting them around the entire town, lights on, sirens whooping, alerting locals that Santa was in Toogoom. We always helped co ordinate the Toogoom Fishing Club’s parking at the hall during their annual fishing comp. We always had representatives attend Anzac Day, Armistice Day, and other culturally significant events in Toogoom. We always helped with Cleanup Australia Day as we could access some areas that would either be too dangerous or hard to get too.

    On an operational note, we attended numerous wildfires in the region, and backing up brigades in adjacent areas. We left our family and friends for days and weeks to help brigades even further afield in places like Gaeta, Glastonbury, Bundy, and Mt Archer, during the big fire season of 2009, and did it with a smile on our faces, and an allowance of $16 a day (No that is not a misprint)

    We attended an average of 5-6 structure and vehicle fires a year and are generally were first on scene if it was in our area (And we had to leave our homes, get to the station, get changed, and get going with an average response time from first call to first truck rolling out the door of 8 minutes!)

    We did this for community pride, not a job. We did this for the pride of wearing the yellow overalls, self acheivement, and mateship.

    And the local Rural Fire Service has the proud record of NEVER losing a life due to wild fire. A record other regions envy.

    But here is the State Government’s dirty little secret, and it only dawned on me recently after reviewing my time in the service and events that happened. Putting one and one together so to speak.

    We tried to replace a pump on our 51 unit (medium appliance), the state government knocked us back. We would approach our area office for assistance with community education, we always got knocked back. We would ask for info about the new Craignish station and would it affect our funding, we were told it wouldn’t affect funding at all, and we would be working together. Whenever I approached the powers that be in regards to better equipping the station I always hit a brick wall. In fact our 51 appliance was coming up for renewal (It was nearly 20 years of age) I was informed that “Due to Government Funding it would probably be thiry years old before it got replaced, if at all”.

    My point being, The State government / DSC has been planning this for years for Hervey Bay. It was a well executed move leaving locals, and brigades, in the dark until the last minute.

    What I find hilarious is the fact that when we had wildfires threatening homes, The boys (and girls) in the BRT’s (Big Red Trucks) had an aversion to leaving the bitumen. In fact they cannot take their trucks off a sealed surface. What the State Government has effectively done is put more homes and lives at risk, and charged residents for the privilige! Go figure?

    I realise my comments have the potential to inflame some people, but local residents need to hear the truth behind this fiasco. I am happy to address any comments about this via this blog post, or via email at matt @ mlmurphy.net

    PS:@ Mr Neve, please take a drive around the affected areas then tell me that one shiny red truck can effectively protect the area. You are asking one truck and five men to do the job of 6 trucks and over twenty volunteers. And talk to the affected residents who now have to pay 5 times more for less service.

  4. John A Neveon 16 Mar 2012 at 10:41 am

    Matt,
    You’ll note I suggested the new station be staffed “full time”. At no time have I ever suggested one truck can do the work of six!

    As to the “shiny red truck”, that sounds more like a boyhood dream on your part.

    The fact is, this is now a declared unban area and as such the urban brigade should look after it. I see no reason why, if needed, the urban brigade could not take over the rural brigades equipment. Simple really.

  5. Sue Brookson 16 Mar 2012 at 11:19 am

    But none of us asked to be made urban John. We were quite happy the way we were… and the urban trucks are not supposed to fight the grass and bush fires that may occur within the new urban boundary!

  6. John A Neveon 16 Mar 2012 at 11:28 am

    Sue,
    There are many things in this world that governments, local, state and federal, have never asked me about. Your on council, you would know that.
    As to being “happy the way we were”, I doubt many people even thought about it, the increase in cost is what woke them up.

    But as stated previously, the area is now urban, so let the urban brigade do their job, I repeat, they can if needed take over the rural’s equipment.

  7. Sue Brookson 16 Mar 2012 at 12:32 pm

    The urban fire service does not ‘take over’. That is the whole problem John. The two different fire services do very different jobs!

  8. John A Neveon 16 Mar 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Sue,

    I cannot believe that both brigades will operate in the same area, at the same time! But, if that is correct? The answer is simple, the rural brigades should close down.

    Then it is up to the urban brigade to do it’s job. I think it is called positive action, remember “a picture is worth a thousand words”.

  9. Matt Murphyon 22 Mar 2012 at 8:53 pm

    I was going to leave well enough alone but Mr Neve your comments are both nieve and incredulous. You are way off target and have, from what I can see, no evidence, nor credibility to back up your statements. Do you live in the affected area? have you ever been a rural fire-fighter? or an urban one at that? or are you just stirring the pot as usual? if that is the case then Cr. Brooks’ blog will go gang busters with commentaries such as yours.

    There are many regions in Queensland that have both auxiliary and rural fire-fighters in the same area, most share same shed. Some of those brigades service some of south east Queensland’s most populated areas, such as the Sunshine Coast, The Gold Coast Hinterland, and Ipswich. Much more populated than little old Toogoom!

    There is actually a cheaper alternative to an Auxiliary station, and that would have been to upgrade Toogoom or Dundowran to what is classified as a ‘Village’ rural brigade. This enables them to do USAR (Urban Search And Rescue) and RTC (Road Traffic Collision) Vehicle Extrications. The only two skills rural brigades aren’t taught or equipped for. Not for the feint hearted, but the NSWRFS and CFA are based on the same model in built up areas and townships, and something I, and a couple of other volunteers were building Toogoom up to do, but kept hitting a brick wall with the Area Office and above.

    This option would have only cost ratepayers $30pa not $125…. a better deal for the ratepayer hey?

    Cr Brooks, you are right on target with your comments, you, ratepayers, nor the brigades, asked for this to happen. it was underhanded and dishonest by the DCS and State Government. Honestly, who asks to pay more for less service? Hang on we live in Queensland, seems to be the norm now.

    The point being this is a state matter that council needs to support the local brigades, and ratepayers paying this extra money that they really dont need to.

    N.b.: Mr Neve, If a boyhood dream of becoming a fire fighter and helping the community keep safe is a bad thing… just shoot me! And I do agree that a picture might be worth a thousand words, but a thousand words ain’t going to save you from wall of fire bearing down on your home if it can only sit on the bitumen and watch!

  10. John A Neveon 23 Mar 2012 at 7:22 am

    Matt,

    Every one of my posts on this topic have been both factual and constructive. Give me just one area where what I have said is not
    either correct or the way to go?

    You on the other hand are trapped in yesterday and emotion, two brigades are a duplication and as such are wastfull, there is
    nothing the rural brigade does that an urban brigade cannot do. As for your costings! I’d love to see them, with costings like that you should have been a politician.

  11. Sue Brookson 23 Mar 2012 at 7:53 am

    To my knowledge each brigade does separate functions as Mat describes. They cannot do each others jobs.

  12. John A Neveon 23 Mar 2012 at 8:55 am

    Sue,

    Please tell us why? To say two firemen cannot do each others job is to defy logic!

  13. Sue Brookson 23 Mar 2012 at 11:21 am

    Who said Legisaltion is logical. John the Queensland State Government Legislation says they cannot do each others jobs.

  14. John A Neveon 23 Mar 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Sue,
    I refer to my earlier post, close local rural brigade, make the urban authority do it’s job.
    What this region really lacks is spine.

  15. Sue Brookson 23 Mar 2012 at 6:51 pm

    John the Urban Fire Brigade does not have the equipment nor the trainin or ability to fight forest and bush fires. They do not provide permits for burning off etc either. Both groups have separate responsibilities and different training etc. urban firies get paid as they are employees and rurals are just volunteers. Maybe what you desire is a totally new fire service that does both jobs? Is this what you desire?if so it would require immense financial investment and changes to Legislation etc.. By the State Government of course..

  16. John A Neveon 23 Mar 2012 at 7:28 pm

    Sue,
    Please let’s look ar this logically, Just how much additional training does one need to write a permit, drive a 4×4 as against a 4×2?
    We are talking professional firefighters here, a hose is a hose, a pump is a pump, as to local knowledge, I’d suggest many of these
    urban brigade employees were born around here. To really suggest the one group could not or can not fill in for the other beggars
    belief. We are supposed to be a progressive first world country aren’t we?

  17. Patriciaon 24 Mar 2012 at 8:07 am

    Sue, you say that rurals are volunteers and are not paid, yet Matt clearly stated they were payed a generous allowance during the fires in 2009. Surely claiming an allowance is the same thing as being paid?

  18. Sue Brookson 24 Mar 2012 at 9:51 am

    The brigades receive funds from the Council collected levy, some funding via State Govt and the volunteers receive a small allowance when actually working at fires etc. they do not receive a wage as such.

  19. Patriciaon 24 Mar 2012 at 10:27 am

    So to clarify, they do actually get paid to fight fires, but only when fighting fires, and don’t get paid if there are no fires. I have always suspected that this is the reason that rural fire volunteers are so grossly over-represented as persons facing court charged with deliberately lighting fires.

  20. Matt Murphyon 26 Mar 2012 at 8:26 am

    @ Patricia

    To clarify the ‘getting paid’ thing. $16 a day isn’t really generous, unless you happen to live in cambodia, or was that comment tongue in cheek?

    Urban fire fighters get paid as full time workers at a current base rate of just under $75k pa (source: http://www.qirc.qld.gov.au/resources/pdf/certified_agreements/cert_agreements/2009/ca129_2009.pdf). Auxiliary fire fighters only get paid when they are fighting fires, attending crashes, or training. Also before anyone says “Wow they get paid heaps!”, please think about the job they actually do first.

    Rural fire fighters got paid an allowance of $16 a day when on deployment outside of their areas. A day usually consisting of 14 hour shifts, (The urban and auxiliary fire fighters got their normal pay.) During normal day to day operations rural volunteers are not paid a cent and we were expected to run a brigade on between $9,000 – $15,000 per year (That’s phone, electricity, maintenance, tyres, fuel, equipment, security, etc, etc)

    The ‘over’ representation of fire fighters in regards to Arson is more about psychological illness than being a fire fighter, paid or unpaid. This is actually more of a ‘over publicised’ representation. Please refer to the Australian Institute of Criminology’s research on the subject at http://www.aic.gov.au/en/publications/current%20series/bfab/1-20/bfab016.aspx

    @ Mr Neve,

    You are still missing the point. I’m so sorry that my actions as a volunteer fire fighter go against your grain as being outdated in a progressive society, but with your idea of community service seemingly to put down people who give up their time, their jobs, and their family and friends on a regular basis to help the local community I can see why. When you have done some time in the RFS, then and only then will you understand.

    To answer your questions:

    Costings: Please contact the Hervey Bay Group and ask when the next general meeting is. Turn up and ask to speak to the treasurer. I’m sure they will be only too happy to assist. Alternatively contact FCRC as all brigades have to submit a copy of their independently audited financial records annually. Auxiliary/Urban brigades do not.

    Training and professionalism:You are trying to compare two very different styles of fire fighting. One could infer that if it is so easy for an urban to do a rurals job, then a rural fire fighter should, with little training, be able to do an urbans job? As for local knowledge, driving a rural fire truck around a burning forest needs a little more intimate local knowledge than the ability to read a street directory. Even the Urbans will attest to this. I’m pretty sure the team at Torquay or Craignish, or any other fire station, will assist you with your inquiry.

    To give you an idea of how much training a volunteer has to undergo these days, without pay mind you, feel free to chat to any of the Brigade Training and Support Officers at Maryborough.
    on 4190 4839

    Back to my original concern about community safety, The Craignish station is ill-equipped for the task at hand. Lives have now been put at risk because of it, and that is all there is too it. Wether we are moving forwards, backwards, or diagonally is inconsequential.

    BTW… you still haven’t answered my questions about your authority on the subject,

    “Do you live in the affected area? have you ever been a rural fire-fighter? or an urban one at that? or are you just stirring the pot as usual?”

    Avoiding a simple set of question like that with rhetoric like yours makes you way more qualified as a politician does it not?

  21. John A Neveon 26 Mar 2012 at 9:18 am

    Matt,

    I do wish you’d stick to the truth, at no time have I put you or any other volunteer/community worker down, that at best is
    a lie.
    You also fail to understand any thing I have posted, you appear to be locked into some type of time warp. Please give me just
    one example of where I am incorrect? Not pathetic meanderings, but facts, sadly there is not one ounce of logic in your
    comments.

    You have stated “this option would only cost ratepayers $35pa not $125”, prove it?

    As to your questions; firstly I fail to see the relevance, secondly, I’d hate to embarrass you.

  22. Matt Murphyon 28 Mar 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Mr Neve. you seem reluctant to answer my questions….

    “Do you live in the affected area? have you ever been a rural fire-fighter? or an urban one at that? or are you just stirring the pot as usual?”

    I have answered all of yours WITH contact details, and references, and to answer yet another of your questions “You also fail to understand any thing I have posted, you appear to be locked into some type of time warp. Please give me just one example of where I am incorrect?”

    Mate…. What part of “we don’t need an auxiliary brigade when a properly equipped volunteer brigade would have worked and at less cost to both the government and ratepayers!” don’t you seem to undersatnd?

    Where I get my so called “locked in a time warp” frame of mind is because I hate governmental waste just as much as you do (something I dare say we could both agree on for once?) I have tabled an alternative, and you seem to be locked into this idea that all progress is good progress when this is clearly a case, when you watch what the media and colleagues have been reporting, that the community does not think so.

    The fact that the fire levy will rise is public knowledge, and if you would care to ask anyone in the fire service (or even Cr. Brooks) what the difference between a village class volunteer brigade ($35 per rated property) and an auxiliary brigade ($161 per rated property, sorry about the typo, but an increase is still an increase) is the colour of their trucks and that auxiliary fire fighters get paid. Not the technology or skill as you would make people believe.

    As to the put downs…..Well they were more insinuations than put downs, but I did take a little offence to your comments, and justifiably so.

    “Just how much additional training does one need to write a permit, drive a 4×4 as against a 4×2?” Your post – on 23 Mar 2012 at 7:28 pm

    Answer, quite a bit of training actually, and Nationally recognised training at that as it is part of the Certificate IV in Public Safety (Fire Operations). Training that, generally, only volunteers do, not urban or auxiliary fire fighters, because most would never have the need to use a fire permit form unless they regularly let off fireworks in their areas.

    Next, not quite a put down, but suggests that fire fighting is an unskilled job (paid or unpaid) “Please tell us why? To say two firemen cannot do each others job is to defy logic!” Your Post – on 23 Mar 2012 at 8:55 am

    Mr Neve. The whole point is not about ‘romantic notions’ or ‘boyhood dreams’ and neither should it be about ‘progress is everything’ especially when there is a more viable, more affordable, more suitable, and less wasteful way to do it. This whole scenario would have been avoided if the State Government, Department Of Community Safety, and Queensland Fire & Rescue, worked with The Rural Fire Service and the local community on the issue instead of pen pushers and policy makers forcing the issue on the local community.

    This is why we now have a new Premier.

    It seems that we need to agree to disagree on this topic as we have two widely varying views on the topic. As for hating to embarrass me…. Mate, don’t ever threaten people like that. That is not in the spirit of the forum and I am quite frankly disappointed you would stoop to that just because we cant see eye to eye.

  23. John A Neveon 28 Mar 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Matt,

    You have done it again, at no stage have I threatened you. But you have gone out of your way to tell us how good you are and what vast experience you have. You have no idea what I might have done or been and to repeat, I’d hate to embarrass you.

    Now to facts, like it or lump it the area in question is now a designated urban region, to repeat for at least the forth time two brigades operating in the same area is wastfull. As the region grows the area will become more and more urbanised, move on, go fishing and let the urban brigade do what they are paid to do. I am sure with a little extra training they’ll do as good a job as you.

  24. Matt Murphyon 29 Mar 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Mr Neve.

    I have put my side on the table, you yours, and the readers of this forum can make their own mind up on the issue.

    Your point of view has been taken on board, I just don’t necessarily agree with it in whole.

    Lets both move on to the next topic?

    Please?

  25. Sue Brookson 29 Mar 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Yes please! I think you have exhausted your arguments….

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